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si tu meurs, que tu sois loin de moi....
What is the explanation for the use of the subjunctive in the French song Hymne a l'amour?
si tu meurs, que tu sois loin de moi...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Charles D on -
It's an "if" clause: "si" = "if"
"If" clauses indicate an uncertainty.
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Permalink Reply by Chantal Savignat on
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J'essaie d'abord d'expliquer en français, puis de traduire, et ensuite on essaiera de se comprendre.
C'est effectivement à cause du "si", mais je vais compléter la réponse.
Le sujonctif est utilisé lorsque qu'il y a une incertitude, quelque chose qui n'existe peut être pas, une action qui ne se fera peut être pas ...
Le sens de la phrase ici est "Si tu meurs loin de moi",
Si tu meurs => ce qui est une certitude, c'est que tu mourras un jour, le "si" ne se rapporte donc pas à "tu meurs" mais à "loin de moi."
donc l'incertitude "quand tu mourras", c'est "si je suis loin de toi".
Mais le fait de mettre l'indicatif donnerait moins l'impression d'incertitude.
and now i try to translate ;-)
It's indeed with the "if" clause, but i am going to complete the answer.
The subjunctive is used when there is an uncertainty, something that maybe doesn't exist, an act that maybe will not be ...
Here the meaning of the sentence is "If you will die far away from me",
"Si tu meurs" => the fact that you will die is a certainty, so the word "si" is not for "tu meurs" but for "loin de moi."
So the uncertainty is not "when you die", but if "I will be far away from you ".
And an indicative will be less strong in uncertainty.
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EducatorPermalink Reply by George Hunt on -
Would it be good French to say "si tu meurs et que tu sois loin de moi..." instead of "si tu meurs , que tu sois loin de moi..."(and would it have the same meaning) ?
What is "que" attached to ? Is it intentionally ungrammatical? (These are the lyrics of a song so that would not be a crime ,would it?)
Is "que" a way of repeating the "si" ?
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Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on
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As I read it, the intention is "que..." in the sense of "whether...".
It's the same usage of "que" that you get in, e.g. "Que tu viennes ou que tu ne viennes pas, je vais organiser une fête", but with the second 'condition' implied rather than explicitly stated.
You can also use "que" as effectively a repetition of "si" as you mention, though I think you're right-- it would be usual to include the "et" in that case (and the subjunctive is not necessarily used in that case).
Where I would disagree slightly with Chantal is that I don't see the reason for the use of the subjunctive as really having anything to do with "uncertainty" or other semantic notions-- I would say it's essentially "just a piece of syntax". If you decide to use this structure of "que..." meaning "whether..." in the first place, you don't really have much choice about the matter of using the subjunctive-- that's just what the structure consists of.
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EducatorPermalink Reply by George Hunt on -
Yes the meaning of "whether " did come to my mind as well as I was mulling it over about an hour ago.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Zappala on
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The full text of this verse with its English translation is:
Si un jour la vie t'arrache a moi If one day life tears you away from me
Si tu meurs, que tu sois loin de moi If you die or you might be far away from me
Peu m'importe, si tu m'aimes It matters little to me, if you love me
Car moi je mourrai aussi. Because I will die also.
I agree with Neil Coffey that "que tu sois loin de moi" could be explained as literally, "whether (or not) you are far away from me," in which case the use of the subjunctive depends on the meaning of "que."
Another explanation, which may or may not amount to the same thing, might be that the phrase "que tu sois loin de moi peu m'importe" could be simply another way of saying: "peu m'importe que tu sois loin de moi," in which case the use of the subjunctive would depend on the expression "peu m'importe." A literal translation, then, would be: "if you die, it matters little to me that (or whether, if) you might be far from me, as long as you love me........."
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Permalink Reply by Logan Fletch on
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There are really only three explanations grammatically.
The first, which technically makes greater sense, is that it is - to use a Latin term - a 'jussive subjunctive' or the 'imperative'/'desiderative' subjunctive (in reality there are a whole lot of descriptions for this use of the subjunctive). In short, it expresses a wish or a desire: « Que votre Majesté soit la bienvenue ! », as the chat botté cries, or in the Bible, « Que la lumière soit ! ». Here the meaning would literally be, "If you die, that/let you be far from me!".
Another possibility, mentioned above, is the continuation of the 'si' clause. Thus: Si (+ ind.) ... et que (+ subj.) = If ... and if. The problem is, of course, that it means 'and': "If you die, and if you be far from me"; it seems unlikely compared to the next option (below), apart from the fact that Piaf has here no 'et' (though it is perhaps able to be overlooked for poetic purposes).
The other possibility is that, again as already discussed, it could mean "whether". Ordinarily, we see: que ... ou que .../ou ... ou = whether ... or. Note here that there is no 'ou',although again as with before it could be simply left out on purpose. The translation, however, cannot be "If you die, or if you be far from me", but "if you die, whether you be far from me (or not, implied)".
So we find ourselves patching things up in English. A solution would be to turn to various proper translations of the song (Stephen's posted one, but another Google search produces one that differs almost immediately) - such as by the first version, Eddie Constantine's; her's, however, is far from literal (http://www.frmusique.ru/texts/p/piaf_edith/hymntolove.htm). My suggestion is that it's the second option, and indeed she follows it up with "it matters little to me, if you love me/for I, I will die too." Because of course she has no 'et' - it's a spoken listing: thus, "if you die, if you be far from me".
In other words, yes, 'que' replaces 'si' here, and 'si' would in its place work perfectly well (albeit perhaps poetically, and with 'si tu es loin de moi', which euphonically is less pleasing). The only other reasonable explanation is the first I've mentioned: "If you die, let it be far from me!".
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Of the interpretations you mention, the one I think is doubtful is the first (not because it's not technically possible, just because it doesn't make much sense).
I think you could argue about whether the meaning intended was primarily "Si tu meurs et que tu es loin de moi" or "Si tu meurs, loin de moi ou non"-- either way, the author has chosen to use a bastardisation of normal syntax, and at that point it becomes a little difficult to predict their intentions...
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EducatorPermalink Reply by George Hunt on -
This is how that verse was actually sung!
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Re this last point, it's an interesting idea, but I don't think it actually quite works unfortunately. "Peu m'importe..." is really a set expression -- if you were to have a clausal subject, the normal word order would really be "Que ... m'importe peu". Although, on the other hand, normal syntax doesn't seem to worry the author of the song terribly much...
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Zappala on
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Most interesting discussion. Thanks to all who participated.
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