question about familiar verb form

I'm a writer with an embarrassingly basic question about the the use of the familar verb form. Years ago, I did study French in school, but I was not a very good student.

My question is, what are the subtleties in the use of the familiar verb form? If, for example, you wanted to suggest some degree of intimacy to another person,,. say, a new possible lover, would you use it, or is it more cut and dried than that--just used for established relationships, like children, relatives, good friends, etc. Or, on the other hand, would you ever use the formal verb form with someone you are close to? How does it work?

I will appreciate your personal insights, as well as any links to articles.

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EducatorPermalink Reply by stu harris on September 9, 2010 at 4:37pm

This interesting question has had fairly full discussion previously in this forum. I wish there was a usable search function.

It definitely isn't "cut and dried," because although there's a general rule that "vous" expresses a relationship of formal respect, the use of vous/tu among corporate working colleagues is highly variable.

It's not useful to imply the possibilities of romance because people of the same age group in an informal relationship would be TU long before such a possibility arose.

In the previous discussion I cited two examples of the use of VOUS between intimates, both from the French cinema. In Claude Lelouch's 'Un homme et une femme,' Anne writes "Je vous aime" and it's what sets Jean-Louis off driving back to Paris all night. In Cedric Klapisch's 'Paris,' sub-title translators were given a problem when the glamorous female student also confesses "Je vous aime" to her professor. He replies "Alors tu peus me tutoyer" (in that case you should call me tu.) I thought the translators were very ingenious in rendering that as "Then stop calling me Sir."

Neil Coffey commented at the time that there was indeed a certain romantic air about "Je vous aime," but he doubted that it would ever be used other than in a film screenplay.

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Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on September 11, 2010 at 7:20pm

As a very rough guide, in a context where you would be on first-name terms in English, it's often appropriate to use tu in French. If two French people below the age of about 40 meet for the first time in an informal setting, they tend to automatically use tu.

Or put another way: people tend to automatically use tu unless there's some kind of "social barrier" in the way-- e.g. employer/employee, teacher/headteacher, customer/shopkeeper. Age can also be a social barrier, but it's not true that e.g. you use vous with people over a certain age -- if anything, it tends to be the relative age that counts.

Note that French people themselves can't always decide, to the extent that some companies may even have a policy about who uses tu to who.

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EducatorPermalink Reply by George Hunt on June 10, 2012 at 1:09am

I was watching the Serbian tennis player Novak Djokovic being interviewed (in French) at the end of his semi-final against Andy Murray at the French Open Tennis.

I was quite surprised that he was "tutoyer" 'ed (meaning he was addressed familiarly with tu rather than vous).

Was I right to be surprised or does it just mean that I am out of touch with speaking the language?

Is it a recent development or not really?

If it makes a difference the TV presenter was , I would guess, about 40 and I didn't think that put him in a real position of seniority to Djokovic with respect to his age.

Might it have been partly because his French was fairly elementary? (surprisingly good actually)

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EducatorPermalink Reply by stu harris on June 10, 2012 at 1:15am

Yes, that's a surprise to me. Since the world of professional tennis is pretty much a clique, though, it's very possible that they knew each other well.

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Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on June 10, 2012 at 1:55am

It's fairly common for interviews with celebrities (as opposed to, say, politicians) to be conducted using the tu form. So it isn't necessarily to do with his level of French.

I'm not quite sure how old this practice is, but it seems to have been the case for at least 15-20 years and I'm guessing longer.

That said: there is also the argument that the tu/vous distinction is a cultural code primarily established by native speakers of French. With a foreign speaker, there's maybe less compulsion to "adhere to the cultural norm" if that speaker isn't part of that norm. But as I say, it may also just be that the interviewer in question is used to interviewing French celebrities in the tu form-- it wouldn't actually be unusual.

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Permalink Reply by Christine on June 10, 2012 at 10:31am

As others said, there isn't a definitive answer to your question. It depends from so many things that it's almost impossible to get a clear answer, but I've got a few more examples.

When I (26) started my new job, I automatically used the formal verb form with my colleagues until they told me that we could use tu. This was because, as both the youngest and the newest person there, I was supposed to wait for the others to take the lead in this... though, with some of my youngest colleagues, they automatically used the familiar verb form with me, and so I replied in kind.

I waited for my boyfriend's parents to tell me it was OK to use the familiar verb form with them, but with his sisters I used tu the first time already. On the other hand, my sister's boyfriend, despite living with us for a while, has always refused to say tu to my mum, even though she told him to (but he's a bit of a special case here!)

Using vous between lovers seems to me to be either old-fashioned or playful (my mum also uses it with friends or family, suddenly using the formal verb form for no other reason than fun). Or it could be that they're from a very high place in society, though that may be just something we see on TV and books.