Please help me on translation

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 27, 2009 at 5:39pm

Ouch, this is not a trivial work. What you have to translate uses complex structures and vocab.

* "I have been attending French course"

Just keep the same tense. "J'ai suivi", not "j'avais suivi" as if it were "I had been attending".

"French course" is "des cours de français". "Le cours de français" would've been "the French course", ie. you only attended one course.

To wrap it up: "Précédemment, j'ai suivi des cours de français".

Now, "including". You wrote "inclusion". This is a noun. The adjective would be "incluant". But you'd better use "y compris". "Y compris" has the exact meaning of "including", it's a very common expression, more than "incluant". And it's perfectly right for any kind of speech or writing.

So here what's we come up to: "Précédemment, j'ai suivi des cours de français, y compris des cours de français en ligne".

If you have any question or comment, feel free to ask while I'm replying to the other sentences in another post.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Liu on June 28, 2009 at 12:56pm

Hi Frank,


Thanks for your assistance.

[quote]
Just keep the same tense. "J'ai suivi", not "j'avais suivi" as if it were "I had been attending".
[/quote]
If I understand your advice correctly "I have been attending" not used in French. Replace it with "I have attended" instead.


[quote]
Now, "including". You wrote "inclusion". This is a noun. The adjective would be "incluant". But you'd better use "y compris". "Y compris" has the exact meaning of "including", it's a very common expression, more than "incluant". And it's perfectly right for any kind of speech or writing.
[/quote]
Is there any alternative for "y compris"? In case to avoid repeating it on the same document if requiring "including" again?

Others noted with thanks


B.R.
satimis

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 28, 2009 at 1:11pm

Hello Stephen;

Yes, "notamment" is a good alternative for "y compris".

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 27, 2009 at 6:02pm

"Selon mon avis leus standard convient de parler à bâtons rompus comme en les voyages."

Ok. The way to say "According to my opinion / according to me..." is "selon moi" or "à mon avis" (there's no real difference, you can use both the same way).

This sentence is difficult to translate, because you can't translate word-by-word, by keeping the same structure as in english. If you don't understand the whole translation, don't panic. Really, this sentence is difficult to translate.

But here we go.

"standard". Here's a rule of thumb: avoid it :) Yes, the word "standard" also exists in French. And yes, it can have the same meaning. But usually, "standard" just stands for "normal", "common". Like "la procédure standard" (the standard procedure). In other contexts, "standard" as it would be used in English, doesn't make any sense in French. So, don't translate "standard" by "standard". It's a trap. You'd better change a bit your sentence, while keeping the same meaning.

Here are some ways:

"À mon avis, ces cours..." (these courses...)
"À mon avis, ces formations... ("formations" is roughly equivalent to "cours". Alternate between them to avoid repetition).
"À mon avis, leur niveau..." (their level...)

Moving on...

"Convient" is all right. "Permet" would be a suitable alternative.

In any case, something "permet *DE*" but "convient *POUR*". How come? I don't have the foggiest idea :)

"parler à bâtons rompus"... yeah, if you want. But unless it's in a very formal context, better use "parler de tout et (de) n'importe quoi".

"comme en les voyages": no need for "les", just like in English ("comme en les voyages" would be "such as in the travelings". A bit weird, isn't it?)

Let's wrap it up:

"À mon avis, ces cours permettent de parler de tout et n'importe quoi, comme en voyage".

Just nitpicking here, but you could also say "par exemple en voyage" instead of "comme en voyage". When "comme" (like / such as) is used to give an example, it feels more natural to say "par exemple" or "comme par exemple" (both are roughly equivalent).

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Liu on June 28, 2009 at 1:50pm

Hi Frank,


[quote]
This sentence is difficult to translate, because you can't translate word-by-word, by keeping the same structure as in English. If you don't understand the whole translation, don't panic. Really, this sentence is difficult to translate.
[/quote]
Actually I have revised the English version several times making the text easier to translate to French. To keep the translation cogent to its original text is NOT an easy task. But if just rewrite the French version based on digesting the English content it defeats the purpose of translation.

Here is the revised sentence:-
According to my opinion their academy grade is suitable for casual conversation such as in traveling

[quote]
use "parler de tout et (de) n'importe quoi".
[/quote]
I suppose that (de) here is to be understood and omitted same as in English.


Others noted with thanks


B.R.
SL

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 27, 2009 at 6:03pm

"Cependant mon but en apprenant le français n'est pas limité à une telle standard."

The beginning of your sentence is perfect.

"à une telle standard" should be rewritten, though, for reasons listed above. Can you try to do it and write what you came up with?

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Liu on June 28, 2009 at 2:00pm

Hi Frank,

[quote]
"à une telle standard" should be rewritten, though, for reasons listed above. Can you try to do it and write what you came up with?
[/quote]

However my aim in learning French is NOT limited to such an academy grade. Or use "level"? Which of them, grade OR level, will better suit for translating to French?


SL

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 28, 2009 at 2:21pm

Better use "level" ("niveau") for education grades.

In French, a "grade" rather applies to military, police, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Liu on June 28, 2009 at 5:00pm

Hi Frank,

[quote]
Better use "level" ("niveau") for education grades.
[/quote]

The final sentence will be;

À mon avis, leur niveau permettent de parler de tout et n'importe quoi, comme en voyage


SL

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 27, 2009 at 6:12pm

Last one: "Je compte réaliser le français professionnel d'écriture."

"Réaliser" (to achieve) means "to build something real". You can "réaliser" a drawing, a sculpture, a receipe. But it doesn't apply to intellectual work. Unless it's a major breakthrough, maybe.

In this context, you'd better use "être capable de"/"arriver à", ie. "to manage to"/"to be able to". Both are followed by the infinitive tense.

"To be able to sing" => "être capable de chanter"
"I'm able to sing" => "Je suis capable de chanter"

So there we are:

"Je compte être capable d'écrire le français professionnel"
or
"Je compte arriver à écrire le français professionnel"

Keep the good work, SL. Looks like you are very excited about learning French, we can feel your enthusiasm and your motivation. You're gonna achieve what you just translated.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Liu on June 28, 2009 at 5:32pm

Hi Frank,

[quote]
Keep the good work, SL. Looks like you are very excited about learning French, we can feel your enthusiasm and your motivation. You're gonna achieve what you just translated.
[/quote]

Lot of thanks for your assistance. I'll continue.
Sort de mercis de votre aide. Je continuerai.

At the beginning I will prepare the English version first and then translate the same to French.

Au début je préparerai la version anglaise d'abord et traduirai ensuite la chose au Français.

After having accumulated certain knowledge on French I do hope that I can write a French document without an English version for reference. This is the step I expect to achieve.

Ensuite après avoir accumulé certaine connaissance sur le Français. J'espère que je pourrai écrire un document français sans version anglaise pour la référence


B.R.
SL

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Permalink Reply by Frank on June 28, 2009 at 6:31pm

"Sort de mercis de votre aide. Je continuerai."

"Sort de" means "gets out of". Not a good pick here, we can hardly get out of a thank :)

"Lots of thanks" (word-by-word: "beaucoup de mercis") isn't a common expression, even in English. We'd rather say "thanks a lot": "merci beaucoup".

Au début je préparerai la version anglaise d'abord et traduirai ensuite la chose au Français.

No need to say both "At the beginning"/"To start with" *and* "first", it's a bit redundant, both in French and in English.

"Je préparerai la version anglaise d'abord et traduirai ensuite la chose en français"
"Pour commencer, je préparerai la version anglaise et traduirai ensuite la chose en français" (pour commencer / to start with, would sound more natural than "at the beginning"/"au début" here).

"la chose" means "the thing". Why not, a text could be described as a thing. But unless the text is weird enough to be described in such a way, you should just say "le texte" (the text).

"Pour commencer, je préparerai la version anglaise et traduirai ensuite le texte en français".

Ensuite après avoir accumulé certaine connaissance sur le Français. J'espère que je pourrai écrire un document français sans version anglaise pour la référence

"Ensuite après" is just like saying "After, then,". No need for both :)

"Connaissance" is almost always plural (hey, you already made that mistake more than once, Stephen).

Here's the final sentence:

"Après avoir accumulé des connaissances en français, j'espère que je pourrai écrire un document en en français sans version anglaise pour référence".

(just nitpicking here, but in order to talk about "connaissances" sinking in, you can use "acquis" - the infinitive form si "acquérir" - instead of "accumuler" : après avoir acquis des connaissances en français...)

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