L'inde

1. J'ai été en l'inde.

I have been to India.

We use the present perfect tense even if you visited India 10 or 50 years ago.
My question is whether the first sentence is correct in this context.

2.Je suis allé en inde.

How about the second sentence?
Does it mean too that I have been to India?
Please tell me all the flaws in my French sentences.

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Permalink Reply by Frank on July 21, 2009 at 12:24am

Hello Crack,

Both sentences have the same meaning (just say "j'ai été en Inde", no need for that "l'", just as in the second sentence).

"Avoir été" is a grammatically incorrect, yet extremely common drop-in replacement for "Être allé".

In written French, better use "Je suis allé".

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Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on July 21, 2009 at 5:47am

Frank-- why say that avoir été is "grammatically incorrect"? It's a perfectly common, natural-sounding part of native French speakers' speech...

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Permalink Reply by Frank on July 21, 2009 at 8:43am

Speech, yes. But it remains a mistake and a grammatical nonsense that should never be written.

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Permalink Reply by Crack1 on July 21, 2009 at 9:34am

Thanks everybody

J'ai été en Inde. So this is correct.

We don't say 'j'ai été en l'france'. It should be 'j'ai été en france'.

Je suis allé en inde. [ This is common in written French.]

I hope I understood you correctly.
..................................................................................................................
In English to write 'india' is not correct.
In English to write 'france is not correct.
At the beginning of a sentence or at the middle of a sentence, you should always write India and France.

Frank and Neil speak french. [ This is wrong.]
Frank and Neil speak French. [ This is correct.]

French is the mother tongue for both Neil and Frank.
french is the mother tongue for both Neil and Frank. [ Not correct.]

Both of you speak French fluently.
Both of you speak french fluently. [ Not correct.]

What is the rule in French?

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Permalink Reply by Frank on July 21, 2009 at 9:37am

In French, countries names begin with a capital, but languages names aren't.

En France, il y a des français qui parlent français.

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Permalink Reply by Crack1 on July 21, 2009 at 1:39pm

Thanks Frank

I talked to frank. This is not correct.
I talked to Frank.

The rule in English is proper nouns must capitalize. Names of people, countries, cities are proper nouns.

I am going to paris.
I am going to Paris. This is correct.

Je vais à paris. Is this correct?
Je parle avec frank. Is this correct?

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Permalink Reply by Frank on July 21, 2009 at 1:47pm

Proper nouns must be capitalized in French as well. It's roughly the same rules as in English except we don't capitalize languages.

Je vais à Paris.
Je parle avec Frank.

But: les français parlent très mal l'anglais.

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Permalink Reply by Crack1 on July 21, 2009 at 2:01pm

He is french. Not correct.

He is german. Not correct

He is danish. Not correct

He is french. Not correct

He is French.

He is German.

He is Danish.

..................................................................
Il est français.

Il est allemand.

Il est danois.

How about the nationalities?

In English nationality is a proper noun.

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Permalink Reply by Frank on July 21, 2009 at 2:21pm

No cap either on nationalities in French.

Permalink Reply by Crack1 on July 21, 2009 at 3:11pm

Thanks Frank

Do you categorize nouns the way we in English categorize?

Common noun, pronoun, proper noun, uncountable noun, countable noun, etc are some of them.
I can't write all forms of nouns without looking at a dictionary.

Permalink Reply by Frank on July 21, 2009 at 3:32pm

Hello Crack,

Yes, we do categorize nouns as well.

Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on July 21, 2009 at 4:20pm

It's worth bearing in mind that branding it simply as a "mistake" could be a confusing standpoint for some learners. Similarly, saying that it "should never be written" really needs qualifying: says who? where does this apparent "obligation" actually come from?

One thing that I think is helpful is to try and separate grammaticality or well-formedness from other facets such as formality and language medium. (The distinction is not always this clear-cut, but it's worth attempting.) So, whether informally or formally, en l'Inde is ungrammatical, for example.

Many learners will be wanting to use their French in contexts such as e-mails to friends, text messages, blog postings etc, where I think you'd agree that J'ai été... would be perfectly normal, acceptable French. There are also more formal contexts where some speakers would definitely avoid it. But that doesn't mean that using j'ai été is per se a "mistake"-- in contexts where speakers generally consider it appropriate and natural, it's appropriate and natural. (One thing to consider too: in the contexts where j'ai été might be considered too informal, speakers may actually avoid using je suis allé as well!-- in favour of e.g. je me suis rendu à...).