Grippe A(H1N1)

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Permalink Reply by Frank on October 18, 2009 at 12:56pm

1] What is the necessity to say ' Quand puis-je me faire vacciner'?
I would write 'Quand puis-je me vacciner?

"se faire" means that you're having something done instead of doing it yourself.

Je me suis fait couper les cheveux = I had my hair cut
Je me suis coupé les cheveux = I cut my hair

2] Is it fine to say 'Mi-octobre' ?
You might dispute that 'Mi-octobre' is not standard French.

"Mi" means half and it's proper French. It's often a literal translation of "mid-".

3] Il est important que vous soyez vaccinè(e) pour ...
As you see the above is subjunctive. Is it fine? You may write the indicative form in this context.

The subjunctive is necessary here. But you can always rephrase it in order to avoid the subjunctive as long as you also remove the "que" and use the infinitive instead:

Il est important d'être vacciné

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Permalink Reply by Crack1 on October 18, 2009 at 2:15pm

Thanks Frank

Je me suis fait couper les cheveux = I had my hair cut.
So I visited a hairdresser to have a haircut.

Je me suis coupé les cheveux = I cut my hair
I did it yourself at home. In summer, sometimes, I cut myself to have tonsured head. I bought 2 haircutters

Let us say that you cut my hair.
I don't think the reflexive form works in this context.
Pam or Neil could say the following:

Il est coupé les cheveux.
OR
Il a été coupé les cheveux.

Pam or Neil can't say the following:
Il s'est coupé les cheveux.

You have told me to say 'je me suis blessé au genou' when I hurt my knee whilst training at the gym.

If someone hit me with a rod in the leg, it should be 'il a été blessé au genou'.

By the way, I have trained at the gym for about 90 minutes today. I came home about 2 hours ago from the gym.

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Permalink Reply by Frank on October 18, 2009 at 2:25pm

Pam or Neil could say the following:

Il est coupé les cheveux.
OR
Il a été coupé les cheveux.


You're underestimating them, I don't think they would ever say that because it's syntaxically impossible to have a direct object compliment with the "être" auxiliary.


Pam or Neil can't say the following:
Il s'est coupé les cheveux.


They could. The reflexive form means that you cut your hair, and it's perfectly correct. The primary meaning is that they cut their hair themselves, although in colloquial French we sometimes use it instead of "Il s'est fait couper les cheveux".

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Permalink Reply by Crack1 on October 18, 2009 at 3:03pm

Frank
I have difficulty in understanding your latest answer.

Il est blessé.
He is wounded.
The above means the injury was caused probably by an attacker.

Il s'est blessé.
He is wounded.
The above means the injury was caused probably by training at the gym.
In other words he hurts himself.

So I thought, if you cut my hair, it would be incorrect to use the reflexive form.


Pamila and Neil ought to use 'Il est coupé les cheveux'.

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Permalink Reply by Frank on October 18, 2009 at 3:14pm

Pamila and Neil ought to use 'Il est coupé les cheveux'.

Still can't catch why they should since it's incorrect. Whatever.

I have difficulty in understanding your latest answer.

"S'être coupé les cheveux" with the meaning of "S'être fait couper les cheveux" is something you may hear in a casual conversation. But take it as an exception.

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Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on October 18, 2009 at 11:36pm

The construction Il est coupé les cheveux doesn't work because in simple terms, the les cheveux has "nowhere to go"-- it can't be the subject of the sentence, because that's Il, and it can't be the direct object, because in French, passives can't have direct objects[*]. (They arguably can in English: e.g. you can say I was given a book, but this construction doesn't work in French.)

The thing that may be confusing you slightly is that in:

Il s'est coupé
Elle s'est coupée

the se represents the direct object (the "actual thing that was cut" if you like). But in:

Il/elle s'est coupé les cheveux

the se represents the indirect object (the "secondary object/recipient" if you like) and the direct object (the "thing actually being cut") is les cheveux.

The latter sentence is perfect grammatical French, but tends to imply the person cut their own hair. In this case, it makes sense to use the causative construction with faire because having one's hair cut is something that one might deliberately ask somebody else to do. Using faire implies that there is "another agent" involved.

So for example, there's a subtle difference between:

Il s'est cassé le bras
"He broke his arm"
Il s'est fait casser le bras
"He got his arm broken"

In practice, the first appears much more common, as in English-- with something like breaking an arm, there's the implication that even if you did it to yourself (or there was no other agent involved), it was probably an accident.

Other common example of the causative (faire) construction:

Je me suis fait piquer un livre.
"I had a book nicked"

Another more subtle example, courtesy of Jones (1996), Foundations of French Syntax, p. 443:

Le marchand a baissé les prix
The shopkeeper lowered his prices
(i.e. he deliberately lowered them by his own action)
Les consommateurs ont fait baisser les prix
Consumers have lowered prices
(i.e. they accidentally caused them to fall, as a group, but individual consumers did not perform some deliberate action to lower them)

[*] But you can say e.g.: "Jean a été informé que...", and some analyses would count the "que..." clause as a direct object.

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