Famous or celebrity

1] Il est un homme célèbre.

2] Il est un homme fameux.

He is a famous man.
OR
He is a celebrity.

The French word 'fameux' means famous in English.
I hope both French sentences are fine.
Please tell me.

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Permalink Reply by French Club on January 17, 2010 at 12:03pm

I think we would more say:

C'est un homme célèbre.

Fameux has two meanings: famous and very good (for a meal for instance). I don't use "fameux" to say that someone is a celebrity.

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Permalink Reply by Frank on January 17, 2010 at 12:30pm

"fameux" as a way to say "very good" would sound definitely tacky.

There's an additional meaning, which is probably the most frequent way it is used nowadays.

It's commonly used in an ironical manner to express how the way something has been described doesn't exactly match the reality.

C'est ton fameux téléphone ? - Is that your so-called phone?

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Permalink Reply by Crack1 on January 17, 2010 at 9:42pm

Thanks for the replies.

C'est un homme célèbre.

1] Il est un homme célèbre. [ WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS?]

Il est malade. [THIS IS CORRECT.]

Il est riche. [ THIS IS CORRECT.]

Il est professeur de français. [ THIS IS CORRECT.]

Could you please tell me the flaw in the first sentence?

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Permalink Reply by French Club on January 17, 2010 at 10:53pm

In each sentence, but sentence 1, there is a subject attribute. This is an adjective to describe or qualify the subject (malade, riche) or a qualification/position (professeur). Between a verb and a subject attribute, we never add "un" or "une" .

If you write:

Il est célèbre.

This is correct.

If you write : C'est un homme célèbre, this is a different construct with a direct object, with an article, a noun and a noun attribute.

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Permalink Reply by French Club on January 17, 2010 at 11:00pm

There may be a slight difference between:

1- Il est célèbre (this is a fact)

and

2- C'est un homme célèbre (this is a fact, and a well-established fact)

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Permalink Reply by Frank on January 17, 2010 at 10:54pm

1] Il est un homme célèbre. [ WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS?]

For some reason, we'd tend to say C'est un homme célèbre although Il est un homme célèbre is technically correct.

Why wouldn't we opt for Il est un homme célèbre while we'd definitely say Tom Cruise sait qu'il est un homme célèbre and Il est un homme d'exception remains a mystery. No matter how I slice it, I'm unable to come up with a rule that could explain this. Real world usage...

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Permalink Reply by Frank on January 18, 2010 at 12:21am

How come Il est un homme riche is unnatural, while Tom est un homme riche isn't?

This issue only arises with this specific sequence of words: Il/elle/ils /elles est/sont un/une/des.

You'd better always opt for C'est un... / C'est une... / Ce sont des... rather than Il est un... / Elle est une... / Ils sont des ... / Elles sont des ....
While the later would sound prefectly natural in several cases, the former is not only a drop-in replacement for these cases, but also a construction that would be just fine (and most of the time, more suitable) in any possible case.

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Permalink Reply by Neil Coffey on January 18, 2010 at 4:25am

Some commentators have noted that when the complement is a noun phrase, il/elle est... expresses a greater notion of "uniqueness" or emphasis compared to c'est....

Your example of Tom Cruise sait qu'il est... is indeed a bit trickier to explain, but I can suggest a couple of pointers.

Firstly, note that in general when the "whole" subject of the main clause is co-indexed with (i.e. "refers to the same person/thing as") the subject of the subordinate clause, in general the subject of the subordinate clause must be a pronoun. So for example, while sentences of the following appear to be possible:

Sophie pense qu'elle est intelligente
Son mari pense que Sophie est intelligente

the following isn't possible (when elle and Sophie are intended to refer to the same person):

~~Elle pense que Sophie est intelligente~~

Now, as part of this restriction, it may be that speakers don't class ce as being "enough of a pronoun" to satisfy the requirement of the subject of the subordinate clause being a pronoun (remember ce has various restrictions-- notably it can only be the subject of certain verbs-- it isn't as much of a "full-fledged" pronoun as il and elle).

On the other hand, you may find the following acceptable:

La femme de Tom Cruise sait que c'est un homme célèbre
Sa femme sait que c'est un homme célèbre

Here, the subject ce of the subordinate clause isn't co-indexed with the whole of the subject of the main clause, so the restriction of the subject of the subordinate clause having to be a ("normal") pronoun doesn't apply.

Then, the other thing to bear in mind is as well as syntactical restrictions such as this, part of what determines whether it is acceptable for a particular word to be the antecedent of another is largely pragmatics. In Tom Cruise sait que c'est un homme..., it may just "sound too much like" the c'est is referring to another person.