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Hi folks,

Que l’on ne peut pas dissocier
word-to-word translation
(That one cannot dissociate)
Which/That is indissociable

Please help me to understand the structure of this sentence.

What is l'on? Is it " le on" dropping "e" and the add ' becoming l'on here? But "on" is personal pronoun. Why it need le before it.

TIA


B.R.
SL

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Replies to This Discussion

Hi Stephen,

The form "l'on" is simply a slightly more formal and literary alternative to "on" when it means "people in general" (in other words, not usually when it stands in for one of the other pronouns). You could arguably analyse it as "le" + "on", but it's really just a fixed form-- for example, you couldn't substitute the "l'" for another determiner ("*cet on"), so analysing it as "le" + "on" probably doesn't make terribly much sense.

In general, the two are completely interchangeable, and the choice of which form is a question of which the author feels 'sounds best'. In general:
- "on" tends to be favoured where the previous word allows liaison (so "dont on", "quand on" rather than "dont l'on", "quand l'on" etc)
- "l'on" tends to be favoured after short 'functional' words that don't allow liaison (including "que", "qui", "où"...)
- "l'on" is avoided when it would create unwanted alliteration (so "on loue", rather than "l'on loue")

Neil
Hi Neil,


Thanks for your advice.


l'on in French mean people generally ?

I suppose this is a "figure of speech" in French;

Figure of speech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech

[quote]
..... for example, you couldn't substitute the "l'" for another determiner ("*cet on") ,...
[/quote]

I suppose *cet referring to :
ces, cet, cette, ce: this/these

ce garcon (masculine)
cet oiseau (masculine words begining with vowel)
cette fille (feminine)
ces gens (plural)


Then what does it mean "*cet on" ? Thanks

[quote]
- "on" tends to be favoured where the previous word allows liaison .....
[/quote]
What does it mean "the previous word allows liaison ?

Others noted. Thanks


B.R.
SL
I suppose *cet referring to :
ces, cet, cette, ce: this/these

ce garcon (masculine)
cet oiseau (masculine words begining with vowel)
cette fille (feminine)
ces gens (plural)


Exactly.

Then what does it mean "*cet on" ? Thanks

Didn't quite catch that either. "cet on" doesn't mean any sense per se.

What does it mean "the previous word allows liaison ?

Well, if you have to words, the first one ending with a voyel and the second one beginning with a voyel, it'd be difficult to pronounce (would sound as if you were talking while eating). It's why you can insert an "l'" before the "on".
Hi Stephen,

The "cet on" example (which, in French, doesn't mean anything) was to illustrate the fact that "l'on" crearly doesn't come from "le on" (which also doesn't mean anything in French), "le" and "cet" being both determiners.

Marc
Hi Marc,


Thanks for your advice.

Please advise how and when "cet on" will be used in a document.


B.R.
satimis
"Sait-on" and "C'est on" make sense, but "Cet on" doesn't at all.
As Frank said, "cet on" doesn't mean anything. But "c'est on" doesn't mean anything neither!
("sait-on" is correct)
"C'est on" is used in expressions starting with "C'est on ne peut plus...".

Ex:
"C'est on ne peut plus impoli de péter à table"

"C'est on ne peut plus" just means "It's very, very, very..."

Ex: "C'est on ne peut plus clair" means that it's crystal clear.

You can use it in formal and informal contexts.
You're right, sorry. I didn't think about that. It's a very special and unique way to use "c'est on".
Exactly-- sorry for causing confusion. My whole point is that "*cet on" is NOT grammatical (hence the '*'), whereas in other cases where l' represents le, you can generally substitute l' for cet (l'homme -> cet homme).
Hi Neil,

[quote]
whereas in other cases where l' represents le, you can generally substitute l' for cet (l'homme -> cet homme).
[/quote]
Noted and thanks

SL
Liaison is where a normally "unpronounced" consonant on the end of a word becomes pronounced. Liaison usually happens before a following word beginning with a vowel that is "closely linked" syntactically.

For example, in the word "quand", the final -d is not pronounced if you say this word in isolation.

But in a phrase such as "quand on...", "quand il..." etc (i.e. before a pronoun beginning with a vowel), the -d becomes pronounced (as though it was written "t", in fact).

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