The order of object pronouns in French - French Language2024-03-29T06:52:14Zhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/the-order-of-object-pronouns-in-french?feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi David, Like you, I am also…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-14:3179028:Comment:1181502015-04-14T21:21:13.415ZMarie http://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Marie905
Hi David, Like you, I am also working my way through the Michel Thomas course. I remember also being confused by this, so replayed it a couple of times. If I remember correctly sentence 3 was to be used if there was some ambiguity over whether 'it' was being given to 'him' or 'her', because if 'it' was being given to 'her' then the pronoun that would be used at the end of a sentence would be 'elle'. Lui used at the end of a sentence always refers to a 'him', whereas used before the verb 'lui'…
Hi David, Like you, I am also working my way through the Michel Thomas course. I remember also being confused by this, so replayed it a couple of times. If I remember correctly sentence 3 was to be used if there was some ambiguity over whether 'it' was being given to 'him' or 'her', because if 'it' was being given to 'her' then the pronoun that would be used at the end of a sentence would be 'elle'. Lui used at the end of a sentence always refers to a 'him', whereas used before the verb 'lui' means him or her. I think this agrees with the other responses here too. Yes , I should have said that…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-14:3179028:Comment:1184312015-04-14T18:55:49.225ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>Yes , I should have said that -but I can only hold so many ideas in my head at the same time :) </p>
<p>Yes , I should have said that -but I can only hold so many ideas in my head at the same time :) </p> Hi George -- what you say is…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-14:3179028:Comment:1181452015-04-14T14:22:36.797ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Hi George -- what you say is true, but you're just missing an extra crucial detail. The way you state it makes it sound as though (2) and (3) are somehow optional alternatives to one another. But in reality, there is an extra observation that goes something like:</p>
<p></p>
<p>"Speakers will use a clitic [i.e. option (2) here] whenever it is feasible to do so."</p>
<p></p>
<p>Or in other words: sentence (3) would be a "marked" or "special" variant only used occasionally under some…</p>
<p>Hi George -- what you say is true, but you're just missing an extra crucial detail. The way you state it makes it sound as though (2) and (3) are somehow optional alternatives to one another. But in reality, there is an extra observation that goes something like:</p>
<p></p>
<p>"Speakers will use a clitic [i.e. option (2) here] whenever it is feasible to do so."</p>
<p></p>
<p>Or in other words: sentence (3) would be a "marked" or "special" variant only used occasionally under some circumstances, e.g. for emphasis/contradiction.</p> I see it as le, referring to…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-13:3179028:Comment:1182362015-04-13T23:07:00.732ZCharles Dhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/CharlesD
<p>I see it as <em>le</em>, referring to 'it' (the book), is the direct object. The <em>lui</em>, referring to 'to him', is the indirect object. Therefore, in a sentence like "I give it to him", all three pronouns (subject, object, indirect object) results in <em>Je le lui donne. </em>Because <em>lui </em> can mean both 'to him' and 'to her', adding <em>à lui or <span>à elle</span></em> helps to clarify gender in place of an identifying noun.</p>
<p>I see it as <em>le</em>, referring to 'it' (the book), is the direct object. The <em>lui</em>, referring to 'to him', is the indirect object. Therefore, in a sentence like "I give it to him", all three pronouns (subject, object, indirect object) results in <em>Je le lui donne. </em>Because <em>lui </em> can mean both 'to him' and 'to her', adding <em>à lui or <span>à elle</span></em> helps to clarify gender in place of an identifying noun.</p> Not to disagree but just to e…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-13:3179028:Comment:1184242015-04-13T21:07:08.051ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>Not to disagree but just to explain how I look at it (hopefully correctly).</p>
<p></p>
<p>In (2) "le" and "lui" are object pronouns without a preposition before them . In that case their position is <strong>before</strong> the main verb ( and in the correct order ,which is a separate matter).</p>
<p>In (3) one of the pronouns <em>does</em> have a preposition before it and so the rule that object pronouns come before the verb does not apply and so it can come after the main verb .</p>
<p>Not to disagree but just to explain how I look at it (hopefully correctly).</p>
<p></p>
<p>In (2) "le" and "lui" are object pronouns without a preposition before them . In that case their position is <strong>before</strong> the main verb ( and in the correct order ,which is a separate matter).</p>
<p>In (3) one of the pronouns <em>does</em> have a preposition before it and so the rule that object pronouns come before the verb does not apply and so it can come after the main verb .</p> The difference between 2 and…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-13:3179028:Comment:1184212015-04-13T18:32:57.319ZGrégoryhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Greg
<p>The difference between 2 and 3 is informative not grammatical. Sentence 3 puts emphasis on 'à lui' saying that it's the most important information. It also implies a choice between several receivers : 'je vais le donner à lui (pas à elle)'. In 2 the most important information is the fact of giving, not the identity of the receiver. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>The difference between 2 and 3 is informative not grammatical. Sentence 3 puts emphasis on 'à lui' saying that it's the most important information. It also implies a choice between several receivers : 'je vais le donner à lui (pas à elle)'. In 2 the most important information is the fact of giving, not the identity of the receiver. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>