the meaning of "livre de pain d'épice" - French Language2024-03-29T09:57:45Zhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/the-meaning-of-livre-de-pain-d-pice?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A111890&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI shouldn't have said the sen…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-05:3179028:Comment:1118902014-02-05T05:29:52.558ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
I shouldn't have said the sentence was same as 'On ne peut pas,' rather that it's not much more as an idea.<br />
I wish the forum allows editing as long as there is not yet a new post. After that, it's fair that a next post seals the deal.
I shouldn't have said the sentence was same as 'On ne peut pas,' rather that it's not much more as an idea.<br />
I wish the forum allows editing as long as there is not yet a new post. After that, it's fair that a next post seals the deal. That sentence has only an aux…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-05:3179028:Comment:1118892014-02-05T01:06:10.200ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
That sentence has only an auxiliary verb, 'peut,' and an adverbial phrase, so it does look clipped. It's essentially the same as 'On ne peut pas.'<br></br>
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The other issue, one about the English idiom, is actually quite unrelated. I believe my post was the first that confuses the 2 issues.<br></br>
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To clarify- the idiom 'can not help doing...' means 'can not stop doing...'<br></br>
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One can not help being happy == One can not stop oneself from being happy.<br></br>
I can not help loving you ==…
That sentence has only an auxiliary verb, 'peut,' and an adverbial phrase, so it does look clipped. It's essentially the same as 'On ne peut pas.'<br/>
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The other issue, one about the English idiom, is actually quite unrelated. I believe my post was the first that confuses the 2 issues.<br/>
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To clarify- the idiom 'can not help doing...' means 'can not stop doing...'<br/>
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One can not help being happy == One can not stop oneself from being happy.<br/>
I can not help loving you == I can not stop myself from loving you.<br />
She can not help it that cats like to follow her home == she can not stop the cats from wanting to follow her. No it's not a proper sentence…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1117902014-02-04T22:46:09.913ZChantal Savignathttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/ChantalSavignat
<p>No it's not a proper sentence</p>
<p><span>/ On ne peut / sans en être attristé en ce moment / "</span> => the part "doing something" is missing.</p>
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<p>the only part that could be removed is the part "feeling", even if the meaning becomes a little different</p>
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<p>No it's not a proper sentence</p>
<p><span>/ On ne peut / sans en être attristé en ce moment / "</span> => the part "doing something" is missing.</p>
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<p>the only part that could be removed is the part "feeling", even if the meaning becomes a little different</p>
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<p></p> Followed by a clause?
Are you…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1118882014-02-04T21:52:10.463ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>Followed by a clause?</p>
<p>Are you saying that ,for example</p>
<p><span>" On ne peut sans en être attristé en ce moment" would not be a proper sentence?</span></p>
<p>Followed by a clause?</p>
<p>Are you saying that ,for example</p>
<p><span>" On ne peut sans en être attristé en ce moment" would not be a proper sentence?</span></p> depends on what you mean by…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1117892014-02-04T21:11:15.340ZVedashttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/frederic
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<p>depends on what you mean by stand-alone !</p>
<p>the phrase has to be followed by something...</p>
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<p><span>By the way "I could not but be moved" would translate : <em>Je ne pouvais que être touché</em><br/></span></p>
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<p>depends on what you mean by stand-alone !</p>
<p>the phrase has to be followed by something...</p>
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<p><span>By the way "I could not but be moved" would translate : <em>Je ne pouvais que être touché</em><br/></span></p> Yes it's an kind of expressio…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1120492014-02-04T20:57:01.806ZChantal Savignathttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/ChantalSavignat
<p>Yes it's an kind of expression that can be used as a standalone expression.</p>
<p>But it's very literary - difficult to use it twice in a text. And the text requires a good level of language.</p>
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<p>You can change the feeling with the same way.</p>
<p>On ne peut sans en être attristé ...</p>
<p>On ne peut sans en être horrifié ...</p>
<p>On ne peut sans en être émerveillé ...</p>
<p>Yes it's an kind of expression that can be used as a standalone expression.</p>
<p>But it's very literary - difficult to use it twice in a text. And the text requires a good level of language.</p>
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<p>You can change the feeling with the same way.</p>
<p>On ne peut sans en être attristé ...</p>
<p>On ne peut sans en être horrifié ...</p>
<p>On ne peut sans en être émerveillé ...</p> well I'd say it's essential…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1118872014-02-04T12:13:40.107ZVedashttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/frederic
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<p>well I'd say it's essential to make mistakes...</p>
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<p>actually it would be: <em>On ne peut s'empêcher <strong>d</strong>'être ému</em>.</p>
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<p>well I'd say it's essential to make mistakes...</p>
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<p>actually it would be: <em>On ne peut s'empêcher <strong>d</strong>'être ému</em>.</p> That's what I thought too - '…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1117872014-02-04T11:08:17.097ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
That's what I thought too - 'can not help doing...'<br></br>
But the way Chantal breaks up the parts of the sentence is very illucidating, so that now I believe this is how things stand :<br></br>
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'Sans en être ému' - adverbial phrase to the verb 'entendre.'<br></br>
'Entendre' - main verb to subject 'On.'<br></br>
'Peut' - auxiliary verb to verb 'entendre.'<br></br>
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But if I was mistaken in thinking of 'can not help doing...', it was a 'learning' mistake, because Vedas had suggested above the French…
That's what I thought too - 'can not help doing...'<br/>
But the way Chantal breaks up the parts of the sentence is very illucidating, so that now I believe this is how things stand :<br/>
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'Sans en être ému' - adverbial phrase to the verb 'entendre.'<br/>
'Entendre' - main verb to subject 'On.'<br/>
'Peut' - auxiliary verb to verb 'entendre.'<br/>
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But if I was mistaken in thinking of 'can not help doing...', it was a 'learning' mistake, because Vedas had suggested above the French equivalence to that: (or near equivalence anyway)<br/>
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On ne peut s'empêcher de sentir les odeurs de Paris.<br/>
On ne peut s'empêcher de être ému. (Now this one is my 'invention,' not Vedas', so I am not so sure about it)<br/>
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So it is good to make mistakes sometimes. Are you sure that "On ne peut…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1118852014-02-04T10:38:09.673ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>Are you sure that "<span>On ne peut sans en être <span>ému.</span>" cannot be used as a standalone (complete) expression?</span></p>
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<p><span>If it could, I would like it -and I thought it was possible to say this.</span></p>
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<p><span>We have the expression in English "I could not but be moved." - maybe that is why I thought the expression I have just given would work in French.</span></p>
<p>Are you sure that "<span>On ne peut sans en être <span>ému.</span>" cannot be used as a standalone (complete) expression?</span></p>
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<p><span>If it could, I would like it -and I thought it was possible to say this.</span></p>
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<p><span>We have the expression in English "I could not but be moved." - maybe that is why I thought the expression I have just given would work in French.</span></p> "On ne peut sans en être ému…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-02-04:3179028:Comment:1120472014-02-04T07:20:53.079ZChantal Savignathttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/ChantalSavignat
<p>"On ne peut sans en être ému ..." (lui entendre raconter les chances de son petit commerce...)</p>
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<p>It's a literary way to write. In the today life, we don't hear that. But in literary it's not surprising, it's quite common.</p>
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<p>A more single way for this sentence could be "On ne peut (we can't) / lui entendre raconter les chances de son petit commerce (doing something) / sans en être ému (without a feeling)". </p>
<p>So the single way is " we can't / doing…</p>
<p>"On ne peut sans en être ému ..." (lui entendre raconter les chances de son petit commerce...)</p>
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<p>It's a literary way to write. In the today life, we don't hear that. But in literary it's not surprising, it's quite common.</p>
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<p>A more single way for this sentence could be "On ne peut (we can't) / lui entendre raconter les chances de son petit commerce (doing something) / sans en être ému (without a feeling)". </p>
<p>So the single way is " we can't / doing something / without a feeling" (I have cut the sentence to understand the parts)</p>
<p>and in literary form "we can't / without a feeling / doing something"</p>
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<p>so your sentence, sorry I don't understand finely the english sentence, but I don't think there is a feeling expressed, and the way of this sentence requires a feeling.</p>
<p>but in french to draw a parralel with the first sentence it would be :</p>
<p>On ne peut (we can't) / sentir l'arôme de Paris (doing something) / sans en être ému. (feeling)</p>
<p>On ne peut / sans en être ému (feeling) / sentir l'arôme de Paris. (doing something)</p>
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<p>(I am not sure it' clear ;-))</p>
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