S'arrêter and 'arrêter' - French Language2024-03-29T08:32:40Zhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/s-arr-ter-and-arr-ter?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A118213&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI think you can delete your o…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-10:3179028:Comment:1180922015-04-10T11:03:18.880ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>I think you can delete your own posts by clicking on the little blue cross at the top right hand corner of the post.</p>
<p>I think you can delete your own posts by clicking on the little blue cross at the top right hand corner of the post.</p> If avoir is part of the plu p…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-10:3179028:Comment:1180902015-04-10T06:06:17.696ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
If avoir is part of the plu parfait, then être taking the place of avoir will also represent no other than plu parfait , will it?<br/>
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I believe my perception about the double objects above was false, and the reason was I've misinterpreted être as representing the voix passive, where in fact it's plu parfait. (In the former case, the subject is direct object of the verb, whereas in the latter the subject is active, so there is no such cause for any silly conundrum.)<br/>
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If avoir is part of the plu parfait, then être taking the place of avoir will also represent no other than plu parfait , will it?<br/>
<br/>
I believe my perception about the double objects above was false, and the reason was I've misinterpreted être as representing the voix passive, where in fact it's plu parfait. (In the former case, the subject is direct object of the verb, whereas in the latter the subject is active, so there is no such cause for any silly conundrum.)<br/>
<br/> I didn't say that structure w…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-10:3179028:Comment:1181292015-04-10T05:39:11.981ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
I didn't say that structure was wrong. But perhaps the whole problem was I've confused the plu parfait and the voix passive.
I didn't say that structure was wrong. But perhaps the whole problem was I've confused the plu parfait and the voix passive. I wasn't aware of that. See,…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-10:3179028:Comment:1178922015-04-10T02:52:00.954ZCharles Dhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/CharlesD
<p>I wasn't aware of that. See, here we all something new.</p>
<p>I wasn't aware of that. See, here we all something new.</p> Police stop the protesters ma…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-09:3179028:Comment:1182152015-04-09T22:29:50.624ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>Police stop the protesters marching towards the prime minister's office.</p>
<p>La Police (or Les policiers ) arrête(nt) les manifestants qui march(ai)ent dans la direction du bureau du premier ministre .</p>
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<p>In English a collective noun like "the Police Force" can be treated as a single thing or as a plural thing<br></br> It would be equally correct to say "The Police Force has "or "The Police Force have".</p>
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<p>Context could be important -I am not entirely sure.</p>
<p>Also @…</p>
<p>Police stop the protesters marching towards the prime minister's office.</p>
<p>La Police (or Les policiers ) arrête(nt) les manifestants qui march(ai)ent dans la direction du bureau du premier ministre .</p>
<br/>
<p>In English a collective noun like "the Police Force" can be treated as a single thing or as a plural thing<br/> It would be equally correct to say "The Police Force has "or "The Police Force have".</p>
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<p>Context could be important -I am not entirely sure.</p>
<p>Also @ Charles It is acceptable ,and common in UK English to say "Police" without a need to say "The Police"</p>
<p>see here as an example:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/05/man-knife-shot-dead-metropolitan-police-london" target="_blank">http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/05/man-knife-shot-dead-...</a></p> First, in English you need th…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-09:3179028:Comment:1182132015-04-09T16:55:28.539ZCharles Dhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/CharlesD
<p>First, in English you need the definite article "the" as in "the police". In French it would be <em>la police</em> or, perhaps, <em>la gendarmerie. Gendarme</em> is a single policeman.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Second, George Bernard Shaw, the Irish Dramatist, stated that England and America were "two countries separated by a common language". In British English collective nouns (the team, the government) are considered plural and take "are". Here in the US, American English treats collective nouns…</p>
<p>First, in English you need the definite article "the" as in "the police". In French it would be <em>la police</em> or, perhaps, <em>la gendarmerie. Gendarme</em> is a single policeman.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Second, George Bernard Shaw, the Irish Dramatist, stated that England and America were "two countries separated by a common language". In British English collective nouns (the team, the government) are considered plural and take "are". Here in the US, American English treats collective nouns as singular uses "is" with them. American: the government is voting today. British: the government are at a stand-still.</p> Thanks everybody for the exce…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-09:3179028:Comment:1182092015-04-09T15:34:02.843ZCrack1http://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Crack1
<p>Thanks everybody for the excellent comments, which exceeds what I want to learn as well as my knowledge of English and French.</p>
<p>I must confess that I have a smattering of French.</p>
<p>You have missed one of my sentences. Please look at the following:</p>
<p></p>
<pre class="tw-data-text vk_txt tw-ta tw-text-medium"><span class="font-size-3">Police stop the protesters marching towards the prime minister's office.…</span></pre>
<p>Thanks everybody for the excellent comments, which exceeds what I want to learn as well as my knowledge of English and French.</p>
<p>I must confess that I have a smattering of French.</p>
<p>You have missed one of my sentences. Please look at the following:</p>
<p></p>
<pre class="tw-data-text vk_txt tw-ta tw-text-medium"><span class="font-size-3">Police stop the protesters marching towards the prime minister's office.</span></pre>
<pre class="tw-data-text vk_txt tw-ta tw-text-small" dir="ltr">Police arrêtent les manifestants en marche vers le bureau du premier ministre .<br/>( How about the French translation?)<br/><br/>You may write 'La police' here. I don't know. French uses the word 'gendarmes' too to when mentioning police. I do not know these facts very well.<br/><br/>In my book, it has to be stop not stops. To the best of my knowledge of English 'the police force' considered plural.<br/><br/>----------------------------------------<br/>Police stopped the protesters marching towards the prime minister's office.<br/><br/></pre>
<pre class="tw-data-text vk_txt tw-ta tw-text-small" id="tw-target-text" dir="ltr">Police a arrêté les manifestants marchant vers le bureau du Premier ministre .</pre>
<pre class="tw-data-text vk_txt tw-ta tw-text-small" id="tw-target-text" dir="ltr"><br/><br/><br/><br/></pre>
<p></p> But it is not wrong in French…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-09:3179028:Comment:1180892015-04-09T11:28:33.717ZCharles Dhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/CharlesD
<p>But it is not wrong in French. French is not English and English is not French--or Italian or Spanish or Irish. Translation can only be considered in terms of approximation, never word for word. In German the verb comes last; in Irish the verb comes first. Are these construct wrong? No, not in their respective languages.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For instance, in Irish, <em>ta cota agam </em> literally means "is a coat at me" but is translated "I have a coat". It's a proper construct in Irish but…</p>
<p>But it is not wrong in French. French is not English and English is not French--or Italian or Spanish or Irish. Translation can only be considered in terms of approximation, never word for word. In German the verb comes last; in Irish the verb comes first. Are these construct wrong? No, not in their respective languages.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For instance, in Irish, <em>ta cota agam </em> literally means "is a coat at me" but is translated "I have a coat". It's a proper construct in Irish but has to be totally manipulated to make sense in English.</p> I think you have to consider…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-09:3179028:Comment:1180882015-04-09T09:38:11.447ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>I think you have to consider "suis arrêté." as a piece and not break it up into "suis" and "arrêté."</p>
<p>Does that help?</p>
<p>I think you have to consider "suis arrêté." as a piece and not break it up into "suis" and "arrêté."</p>
<p>Does that help?</p> Look at it like this .
You wo…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2015-04-09:3179028:Comment:1180872015-04-09T08:35:36.939ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>Look at it like this .</p>
<p>You would naturally expect "s'arrêter" (to stop oneself) to lead to</p>
<p>"je m'arrête" (I stop myself) ,which in turn would lead to</p>
<p>je m'ai s'arrêté (I have stopped myself)</p>
<p>This would ,however be a mistake as , in all these kinds of constructions (reflexive verbs)it is necessary to change use "etre" instead of "avoir" and so you end up with</p>
<p>"je me suis arrêté"(I stopped myself or I stopped ,as we would more likely say in English)</p>
<p>Look at it like this .</p>
<p>You would naturally expect "s'arrêter" (to stop oneself) to lead to</p>
<p>"je m'arrête" (I stop myself) ,which in turn would lead to</p>
<p>je m'ai s'arrêté (I have stopped myself)</p>
<p>This would ,however be a mistake as , in all these kinds of constructions (reflexive verbs)it is necessary to change use "etre" instead of "avoir" and so you end up with</p>
<p>"je me suis arrêté"(I stopped myself or I stopped ,as we would more likely say in English)</p>