Quel est-ce que le problèm ? - French Language2024-03-29T07:07:33Zhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/quel-est-ce-que-le-probl-m?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A113734&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi George -- at one time, you…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-17:3179028:Comment:1138232014-06-17T15:38:43.616ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Hi George -- at one time, you could use <strong>que</strong> in an analogous way to <strong>soit</strong> or <strong>ou</strong> today, e.g. you could say "<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Que</span> bon <span style="text-decoration: underline;">que</span> mauvais</strong>" to mean something like "Both good and bad", "Either good or bad". But I think this is a slightly different use.</p>
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<p>I'm honestly not sure just how the use with <strong>que</strong> in this case…</p>
<p>Hi George -- at one time, you could use <strong>que</strong> in an analogous way to <strong>soit</strong> or <strong>ou</strong> today, e.g. you could say "<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Que</span> bon <span style="text-decoration: underline;">que</span> mauvais</strong>" to mean something like "Both good and bad", "Either good or bad". But I think this is a slightly different use.</p>
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<p>I'm honestly not sure just how the use with <strong>que</strong> in this case arose, and there's not really any consensus on how to analyse it as far as I'm aware, but I probably wouldn't try and shoehorn it into any of the traditional categories such as "conjunction" (which in itself is a bit of a 'dustbin' category in any case). I have one reference mentioning that Henri Frei called it an "outil d'inversion, un signaleur expressif"... but really that's just grammarian-speak for "I ain't got a clue how to analyse this so I'll just string some meaningless fancy-sounding words together" :)</p>
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<p>What I would just point out is that you find this <strong>que</strong> used in a few contexts in literary French-- not just in the case of an <em>inverted</em> copula:</p>
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<p><strong> Quelle délivrance <span style="text-decoration: underline;">que</span> cette révélation!</strong></p>
<p><strong> C'est un gentilhomme <span style="text-decoration: underline;">que</span> ton voisin!</strong></p>
<p></p> I hope Neil will put us right…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-15:3179028:Comment:1137342014-06-15T15:05:39.496ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>I hope Neil will put us right but my feeling is that it could be a conjunction with an unstated clause </p>
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<p>I am asking about "comme" because I wonder if "que" and "comme" could have been used very differently in the distant past (hundreds of years ago which I think Neil does know about).</p>
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<p>It is just a wild guess on my part.</p>
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<p>In English "comme" can be translated to "like" or "as" so it has more than one meaning.</p>
<p>I hope Neil will put us right but my feeling is that it could be a conjunction with an unstated clause </p>
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<p>I am asking about "comme" because I wonder if "que" and "comme" could have been used very differently in the distant past (hundreds of years ago which I think Neil does know about).</p>
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<p>It is just a wild guess on my part.</p>
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<p>In English "comme" can be translated to "like" or "as" so it has more than one meaning.</p> On dirait que 'Comme' refers…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-15:3179028:Comment:1137332014-06-15T14:41:46.456ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
On dirait que 'Comme' refers to process and actions, whereas 'Que' the nature or identity of a thing.<br />
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What would be the 'part of speech' of 'que' in 'Qu'est-ce que la philosophie?' It apparently is not relative pronoun, is it? -for lack of a sentence to follow it. A preposition? Pronomial preposition?
On dirait que 'Comme' refers to process and actions, whereas 'Que' the nature or identity of a thing.<br />
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What would be the 'part of speech' of 'que' in 'Qu'est-ce que la philosophie?' It apparently is not relative pronoun, is it? -for lack of a sentence to follow it. A preposition? Pronomial preposition? There is no chance is there t…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-15:3179028:Comment:1137312014-06-15T10:22:56.742ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>There is no chance is there that "que" used to be used to mean "comme" in the far distant past. (in the middle ages for example)?</p>
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<p>Does "que" mean "comme" in any of the other romance languages or in Latin.?</p>
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<p>Yes I have got it that "problem" doesn't suit the "in general" usage but I still find the way it is used overall unusual even if it is a nice way to speak. </p>
<p>There is no chance is there that "que" used to be used to mean "comme" in the far distant past. (in the middle ages for example)?</p>
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<p>Does "que" mean "comme" in any of the other romance languages or in Latin.?</p>
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<p>Yes I have got it that "problem" doesn't suit the "in general" usage but I still find the way it is used overall unusual even if it is a nice way to speak. </p> Hi George/Robert -- I don't k…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-15:3179028:Comment:1138162014-06-15T00:41:49.086ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Hi George/Robert -- I don't know if this helps to explain the difference, but you can maybe think of "Qu'est-ce que (c'est que)...?" as meaning something like "What is the essence of...?", "What is meant by...?". So it's more usual to find it with questions such as "Qu'est-ce que l'amour?", "Qu'est-ce que la philosophie?" etc.</p>
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<p>Or for example:</p>
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<p>(1) "Qu'est-ce que la philosophie?" -> "What is philosophy (in general)?", "What is meant by the concept of…</p>
<p>Hi George/Robert -- I don't know if this helps to explain the difference, but you can maybe think of "Qu'est-ce que (c'est que)...?" as meaning something like "What is the essence of...?", "What is meant by...?". So it's more usual to find it with questions such as "Qu'est-ce que l'amour?", "Qu'est-ce que la philosophie?" etc.</p>
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<p>Or for example:</p>
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<p>(1) "Qu'est-ce que la philosophie?" -> "What is philosophy (in general)?", "What is meant by the concept of 'philosophy'?"</p>
<p>(2) "Quelle est la philosophie que vous adoptez?" -> "What is the (specific/identified/choice of) philosophy that you adopt?"</p>
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<p>So when you ask "What is the problem?", this is much more likely to refer to a question analogous to type (2) rather than type (1) -- you're effectively asking something like "<em>Which</em> is the problem that has occurred?" etc.</p> hummm
Let's sum up
Qu'est ce…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-14:3179028:Comment:1138152014-06-14T19:13:49.106ZChantal Savignathttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/ChantalSavignat
<p>hummm</p>
<p>Let's sum up</p>
<p><br></br> Qu'est ce que c'est que la philosophie? right as casual or verbal - could be written in a text for a conference.<br></br> Qu'est ce que la philosophie? common as formal - could be written.<br></br> <br></br> <br></br> Quel est-ce que le problèm ? wrong it's not the same form as the previous one.</p>
<p>"quel" is a simple interrogative pronoun. so it is used as the other interrogative pronouns or adverbs (qui, quand, ou ...) pronoun + verb + subject.</p>
<p>qui est ce…</p>
<p>hummm</p>
<p>Let's sum up</p>
<p><br/> Qu'est ce que c'est que la philosophie? right as casual or verbal - could be written in a text for a conference.<br/> Qu'est ce que la philosophie? common as formal - could be written.<br/> <br/> <br/> Quel est-ce que le problèm ? wrong it's not the same form as the previous one.</p>
<p>"quel" is a simple interrogative pronoun. so it is used as the other interrogative pronouns or adverbs (qui, quand, ou ...) pronoun + verb + subject.</p>
<p>qui est ce monsieur ?</p>
<p>ou allez vous ?</p>
<p>quel est le problème ?</p>
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<p>"qu'est-ce que" is what we call "forme renforcée" similar to "est-ce que". It's an expression used as it is. there are many forms with each pronoun or adverb. (qui est-ce que, ...). But none with the pronoun "quel".</p>
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<p></p> I will defer to Chantal of…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-14:3179028:Comment:1136852014-06-14T16:28:14.238ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
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<div class="xg_user_generated">I will defer to Chantal of course But I would be almost certain that "Quel est-ce que le problèm ?" would not be good French.</div>
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<div class="xg_user_generated">I am not so sure about "Qu'est ce que la philosophie?"…</div>
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<div class="xg_user_generated">I will defer to Chantal of course But I would be almost certain that "Quel est-ce que le problèm ?" would not be good French.</div>
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<div class="xg_user_generated">I am not so sure about "Qu'est ce que la philosophie?"</div>
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<div class="xg_user_generated">If it was possible I don't think it would be casual usage- if anything it would seem rather formal to me but on balance I would rule it out completely as it sounds very wrong to me.</div>
</div> So let's say that that is acc…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-14:3179028:Comment:1139022014-06-14T15:21:24.564ZRoberthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/Robert
So let's say that that is acceptable as casual use-<br />
Qu'est ce que c'est que la philosophie?<br />
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Then, is this also ok as casual use?<br />
Qu'est ce que la philosophie?<br />
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And if so, why is this so bad, after all?<br />
Quel est-ce que le problèm ?
So let's say that that is acceptable as casual use-<br />
Qu'est ce que c'est que la philosophie?<br />
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Then, is this also ok as casual use?<br />
Qu'est ce que la philosophie?<br />
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And if so, why is this so bad, after all?<br />
Quel est-ce que le problèm ? huuuummmm .... I don't explai…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-14:3179028:Comment:1136842014-06-14T14:13:49.756ZChantal Savignathttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/ChantalSavignat
<p>huuuummmm .... I don't explain ;-)</p>
<p>maybe euphonie is the best explanation.</p>
<p>No seriously I don't know. I am not sure about the grammatical function of each word in this kind of expression. (3 "que" / 7 words)</p>
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<p>the most used is maybe "qu'est ce que c'est, la philososophie ?" : it's a good sentence to begin a conference.</p>
<p>but nobody would be surprised hearing "qu'est ce que c'est que la philosophie"</p>
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<p>there is maybe a slight difference : the first…</p>
<p>huuuummmm .... I don't explain ;-)</p>
<p>maybe euphonie is the best explanation.</p>
<p>No seriously I don't know. I am not sure about the grammatical function of each word in this kind of expression. (3 "que" / 7 words)</p>
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<p>the most used is maybe "qu'est ce que c'est, la philososophie ?" : it's a good sentence to begin a conference.</p>
<p>but nobody would be surprised hearing "qu'est ce que c'est que la philosophie"</p>
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<p>there is maybe a slight difference : the first one sounds a little more like a question and the second like the beginning of a declaration (expecting the rest).</p>
<p></p> So how would you explain the…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-06-14:3179028:Comment:1137302014-06-14T13:27:41.465ZGeorge Hunthttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/GEORDIEHOUND
<p>So how would you explain the use of that "que" then ?</p>
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<p>To my ears it doesn't have a grammatical function .It is not the same "que " as in "plus... que" for example.</p>
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<p>Is it for "euphonie"? To make the sentence less "overgrown" ?</p>
<p>So how would you explain the use of that "que" then ?</p>
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<p>To my ears it doesn't have a grammatical function .It is not the same "que " as in "plus... que" for example.</p>
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<p>Is it for "euphonie"? To make the sentence less "overgrown" ?</p>