Literary Ne,used without the pas - French Language2024-03-29T07:07:01Zhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/literary-neused-without-the?feed=yes&xn_auth=noVery interesting. Thanks a lo…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2009-07-23:3179028:Comment:49052009-07-23T17:46:40.139ZFrankhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/j
Very interesting. Thanks a lot, Neil.
Very interesting. Thanks a lot, Neil. David --
A common account is…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2009-07-23:3179028:Comment:49032009-07-23T17:35:30.541ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
David --<br />
<br />
A common account is that once upon a time, "ne" was the word that actually denoted negation.<br />
<br />
Originally, the idea is that essentially, <b>ne</b> was the negative marker, and a sentence such as <b>je ne marche pas</b> would have meant something like "I do not walk a single step", i.e. <b>pas</b> carried it's literal interpretation of meaning "a step" (similarly <b>je ne parle mot</b>, <b>je ne bois goutte</b> etc). Over time, <b>pas</b>, <b>mot</b>, <b>goutte</b>, <b>point</b>,…
David --<br />
<br />
A common account is that once upon a time, "ne" was the word that actually denoted negation.<br />
<br />
Originally, the idea is that essentially, <b>ne</b> was the negative marker, and a sentence such as <b>je ne marche pas</b> would have meant something like "I do not walk a single step", i.e. <b>pas</b> carried it's literal interpretation of meaning "a step" (similarly <b>je ne parle mot</b>, <b>je ne bois goutte</b> etc). Over time, <b>pas</b>, <b>mot</b>, <b>goutte</b>, <b>point</b>, <b>personne</b> etc-- became interpreted as the words that actually carried negativity. Nowadays, this process has happened to the extent that <b>ne</b> is usually omitted altogether in non-emphatic speech, and <b>ne</b> is practically never used on its own as a negative marker (though you'll find occasional examples such as <b>je <u>n</u>'en ai que faire</b> = <i>"I have no use for it"</i>, <b>si ce <u>n</u>'est...</b> = <i>"notwithstanding...", "if not..."</i>, <b><u>n</u>'empêche que...</b> = <i>"the fact remains that..."</i>, <b>je <u>n'</u>ose/<u>ne</u> puis te le dire...</b> = <i>"I dare not/cannot tell you"</i> etc-- obviously some of these are quite formal/literary-sounding).<br />
<br />
I'm not an expert specifically on language history, but my understanding is that there is a complication in this account, in that from the very first texts that are ostensibly "French" (such as the infamous Chanson de Roland), the range of nouns used with <b>ne</b> is arguably not as great as you'd expect-- so making the examples up out of thin air, right "from the beginning" (whenever you say that really was) it was far more common to say e.g. <b>je ne vois goutte</b>, <b>je ne vois point</b>, than e.g. <b>je ne vois chaise</b>, <b>je ne vois chien</b>, <b>je ne vois arbre</b>.<br />
<br />
I insist-- historical linguistics isn't my speciality, but what I've briefly studied, that's my understanding; if anyone has more knowledge, I would be glad to be corrected!<br />
<br />
Neil