lavez l'avez - French Language2024-03-28T10:02:35Zhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/lavez-l-avez?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A114943&feed=yes&xn_auth=noActually, some models would s…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-10-17:3179028:Comment:1153402014-10-17T16:25:45.456ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Actually, some models would say that <strong>l'avez</strong> it's "technically" one word -- that's really just a question of your model and how you define "word".</p>
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<p>But either way, there's no a priori reason to expect more "emphasis" (whatever that really means phonetically in this case). There <em>might</em> be, and it would be interesting to see data that showed this. But in the absence of actual data, I see little reason to <em>assume</em> that there is.</p>
<p>Actually, some models would say that <strong>l'avez</strong> it's "technically" one word -- that's really just a question of your model and how you define "word".</p>
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<p>But either way, there's no a priori reason to expect more "emphasis" (whatever that really means phonetically in this case). There <em>might</em> be, and it would be interesting to see data that showed this. But in the absence of actual data, I see little reason to <em>assume</em> that there is.</p> I would say there may be a li…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-10-16:3179028:Comment:1151922014-10-16T04:59:52.369ZTymon Cameronhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/TymonCameron
<p>I would say there may be a little more stress or "emphasis" on the "l" in l'avez than lavez. You have to think of it like this. L'avez is technically 2 words. So, as a way native speakers may distinguish the l'avez and lavez is buy adding a little more "emphasis" to the "l" in l'avez.</p>
<p>However as a non-native speaker when talking to a French person, don't sweat the difference. They know what you're trying to say.</p>
<p>I would say there may be a little more stress or "emphasis" on the "l" in l'avez than lavez. You have to think of it like this. L'avez is technically 2 words. So, as a way native speakers may distinguish the l'avez and lavez is buy adding a little more "emphasis" to the "l" in l'avez.</p>
<p>However as a non-native speaker when talking to a French person, don't sweat the difference. They know what you're trying to say.</p> Hi Tony -- as far as I'm awar…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-10-15:3179028:Comment:1151892014-10-15T13:56:40.397ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Hi Tony -- as far as I'm aware, you'd only get a difference in emphatic speech or where you're deliberately altering your pronunciation (e.g. in dictation) to emphasise the "l'". (It would be interesting if some data did show that speakers made a subtle difference, but I'm unaware of any.)</p>
<p>Hi Tony -- as far as I'm aware, you'd only get a difference in emphatic speech or where you're deliberately altering your pronunciation (e.g. in dictation) to emphasise the "l'". (It would be interesting if some data did show that speakers made a subtle difference, but I'm unaware of any.)</p> I believe the difference is s…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-10-15:3179028:Comment:1152522014-10-15T13:08:55.894ZTony Walshhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/TonyWalsh
<p>I believe the difference is something like - "Vous-l avez" rather than "Vous lavez". I.e. the l is pronounced with the vous in "Vous l'avez" but with the lavez in "Vous lavez", effectively causing a slight space between the words in the latter case. But I think this is barely noticeable in normal speech</p>
<p>I believe the difference is something like - "Vous-l avez" rather than "Vous lavez". I.e. the l is pronounced with the vous in "Vous l'avez" but with the lavez in "Vous lavez", effectively causing a slight space between the words in the latter case. But I think this is barely noticeable in normal speech</p> Hi Jean -- The difference tha…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-09-25:3179028:Comment:1149462014-09-25T22:07:20.213ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Hi Jean -- The difference that is traditionally advocated for the <em>dictée</em> exercise is specifically in the conditional (-ais) vs future (-ai) forms. So it's a slightly different case-- although a similar observation holds in practice as to words ending in -ais in general: there's no consistent differentiation between the two forms (conditional vs future) and you can't tell just by listening to the word in isolation which tense is intended.</p>
<p>Hi Jean -- The difference that is traditionally advocated for the <em>dictée</em> exercise is specifically in the conditional (-ais) vs future (-ai) forms. So it's a slightly different case-- although a similar observation holds in practice as to words ending in -ais in general: there's no consistent differentiation between the two forms (conditional vs future) and you can't tell just by listening to the word in isolation which tense is intended.</p> Interesting that Neil Coffey…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-09-25:3179028:Comment:1149432014-09-25T21:05:09.528ZJean Dervinhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/JeanDervin
<p>Interesting that Neil Coffey said two years ago that the alleged difference in pronunciation was "an invention for the purposes of the school "dictée" exercise". See <a href="http://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/voudrais-vs-vouloir?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A71693">http://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/voudrais-vs-vouloir?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A71693</a>. Has he changed his mind?</p>
<p>Interesting that Neil Coffey said two years ago that the alleged difference in pronunciation was "an invention for the purposes of the school "dictée" exercise". See <a href="http://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/voudrais-vs-vouloir?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A71693">http://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/forum/topics/voudrais-vs-vouloir?commentId=3179028%3AComment%3A71693</a>. Has he changed his mind?</p> I was responding to the idea…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-09-21:3179028:Comment:1150972014-09-21T16:17:12.645ZCharles Dhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/CharlesD
<p>I was responding to the idea of pronunciation of spoken French posed by Dwayne at the top; not necessarily written language.</p>
<p>I was responding to the idea of pronunciation of spoken French posed by Dwayne at the top; not necessarily written language.</p> There should not logically b…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-09-20:3179028:Comment:1148342014-09-20T11:04:22.043ZJacques Fabrehttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/JacquesFabre
<p>There should not logically be any difference in pronounciation between "l'avez" and "lavez".</p>
<p>However, many people slightly accentuate the consonant "L" in the case of "l'avez" [vous LL' avez], though I cannot figure out any realistic context where there could be a confusion in meaning.</p>
<p>Moreover, every time the elided pronoun "l' " (for "le" and "la") is used before a verb commencing with a vowel, the same accentuation is made though no confusion in meaning can take place. Ex.…</p>
<p>There should not logically be any difference in pronounciation between "l'avez" and "lavez".</p>
<p>However, many people slightly accentuate the consonant "L" in the case of "l'avez" [vous LL' avez], though I cannot figure out any realistic context where there could be a confusion in meaning.</p>
<p>Moreover, every time the elided pronoun "l' " (for "le" and "la") is used before a verb commencing with a vowel, the same accentuation is made though no confusion in meaning can take place. Ex. "Vous (l)l'aimez", "je (l)l'interroge", "tu (l)l'obtiens", etc. whereas "laimez", "linterroge", "lobtiens" just do not exist.</p> Although... this traditional…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-09-20:3179028:Comment:1147792014-09-20T04:41:53.130ZNeil Coffeyhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/NeilCoffey
<p>Although... this traditional argument of "you need subject pronouns because different verb forms sound the same" is often exaggerated. Think about English, for example, which has very little verb morphology. If on Facebook you write: "Went to lunch with my sister today", there's usually little doubt about who "went", even though theoretically it could be any grammatical person.</p>
<p>Although... this traditional argument of "you need subject pronouns because different verb forms sound the same" is often exaggerated. Think about English, for example, which has very little verb morphology. If on Facebook you write: "Went to lunch with my sister today", there's usually little doubt about who "went", even though theoretically it could be any grammatical person.</p> Which is why in French it is…tag:www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk,2014-09-19:3179028:Comment:1148262014-09-19T23:46:39.582ZCharles Dhttp://www.forum.french-linguistics.co.uk/profile/CharlesD
<p>Which is why in French it is often quite necessary to use the subject pronouns. In other Romance languages, Spanish and Italian for instance, subject pronouns may be dropped--the subject can be discerned in the verb declension. In French you really need to say <strong><em>Je </em></strong><em>t'aime,</em> where in Spanish you don't have to say <strong><em>Yo </em></strong><i>te amo. Te amo </i> is just fine. This French construction certainly helped me as an English speaker since the…</p>
<p>Which is why in French it is often quite necessary to use the subject pronouns. In other Romance languages, Spanish and Italian for instance, subject pronouns may be dropped--the subject can be discerned in the verb declension. In French you really need to say <strong><em>Je </em></strong><em>t'aime,</em> where in Spanish you don't have to say <strong><em>Yo </em></strong><i>te amo. Te amo </i> is just fine. This French construction certainly helped me as an English speaker since the declension of French verbs often are pronounced exactly the same.</p>